/customers/iconara.net/iconara.net/httpd.www/blog/wp-content/plugins/wp-super-cache/wp-cache-phase1.php Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /customers/4/c/9/iconara.net/httpd.www/blog/wp-content/advanced-cache.php:1) in /customers/4/c/9/iconara.net/httpd.www/blog/wp-includes/feed-rss2-comments.php on line 8 Comments on: Side-stepping ES4 http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/ Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:41:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Rodrigo http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7407 Rodrigo Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:03:30 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7407 <p>I agree with both TK and Simple Guy.</p> <p>I know that if I want to be still in the market 5 years from now....I MUST learn AS3/AS4. AS2 is a total waste of time looking in perspective and into the future.</p> <p>It's not an option at all.</p> <p>And far as I have seen, AS3 can work absolute wonders, no question about it. Still, I don't want to write down a whole class just for simple interactivity...Lol!</p> <p>Now, for you Coders out there:</p> <p>Everything points right now to the fact that AS will remain a proprietary language and that will go separate ways from Java and so forth. Is this true? Can we expect AS"X" to replace Javascript and et al in the next 5 years? It has stalled after all, hasn't it?</p> <p>Thank you for the positive comments, by the way!</p> I agree with both TK and Simple Guy.

I know that if I want to be still in the market 5 years from now….I MUST learn AS3/AS4. AS2 is a total waste of time looking in perspective and into the future.

It’s not an option at all.

And far as I have seen, AS3 can work absolute wonders, no question about it. Still, I don’t want to write down a whole class just for simple interactivity…Lol!

Now, for you Coders out there:

Everything points right now to the fact that AS will remain a proprietary language and that will go separate ways from Java and so forth. Is this true? Can we expect AS”X” to replace Javascript and et al in the next 5 years? It has stalled after all, hasn’t it?

Thank you for the positive comments, by the way!

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By: TK http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7398 TK Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:04:34 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7398 <p>Yes. AS3 was a move toward DEVELOPMENT, though it had its benefits in performance for design, etc. I totally agree though, I coded in AS2 before AS3 and the simplicity of adding interaction was a definite draw for me back then. With the advent of Flex, it appears that Adobe's focus is entirely on development, rather than design. We'll have to see (and hope) that Adobe starts targeting design in Flash and implements an easier way to throw designs together. I again state that I believe that AS3 was necessary, but I do agree with Rodrigo in saying "Flash started as anything BUT an programming IDE." Now, though we have the power of AS3, we are moving away from design in Flash and toward development. I'm not a Flex guy, though I see the need for Flex. (I do believe that we need to get off our butts and develop some open source version of Flex. Flex just isn't that flexible and you end up locked to something you can't truly modify) We'll just have to see what Adobe's up to with AS3.5 and the new releases of Flash Player and CS4.</p> <ul> <li>TK</li> </ul> Yes. AS3 was a move toward DEVELOPMENT, though it had its benefits in performance for design, etc. I totally agree though, I coded in AS2 before AS3 and the simplicity of adding interaction was a definite draw for me back then. With the advent of Flex, it appears that Adobe’s focus is entirely on development, rather than design. We’ll have to see (and hope) that Adobe starts targeting design in Flash and implements an easier way to throw designs together. I again state that I believe that AS3 was necessary, but I do agree with Rodrigo in saying “Flash started as anything BUT an programming IDE.” Now, though we have the power of AS3, we are moving away from design in Flash and toward development. I’m not a Flex guy, though I see the need for Flex. (I do believe that we need to get off our butts and develop some open source version of Flex. Flex just isn’t that flexible and you end up locked to something you can’t truly modify) We’ll just have to see what Adobe’s up to with AS3.5 and the new releases of Flash Player and CS4.

  • TK
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By: simple guy http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7397 simple guy Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:13:49 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7397 <p>@Rodrigo:</p> <p>It's not unreasonable for you to expect easy ways for doing simple scripts. Sadly, there seems to be a misguided (possibly even elitist) assumption in the AS3 community that a "grown up" language must exclude the simplicity and "scriptability" that allowed Flash to become so wide-spread in the first place.</p> <p>Developers want classes, strong typing, and the like; but this does not have make the easy things hard.</p> @Rodrigo:

It’s not unreasonable for you to expect easy ways for doing simple scripts. Sadly, there seems to be a misguided (possibly even elitist) assumption in the AS3 community that a “grown up” language must exclude the simplicity and “scriptability” that allowed Flash to become so wide-spread in the first place.

Developers want classes, strong typing, and the like; but this does not have make the easy things hard.

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By: Rodrigo http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7394 Rodrigo Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:59:17 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7394 <p>@Tk and Bruce:</p> <p>The point you aren't seeing here is that the Flash community is conformed in two main branches: Coders and Designers (even though are many shades of gray right there... ;D)</p> <p>What I think is that Flash started as anything BUT an programming IDE. Most graphic designers lack the logical thinking required to program (But we do great graphics...that most programmers cant!)</p> <p>So the main issue here (at least to me) is:</p> <p>-If I need to learn how to program in AS3, I would wait until the language has settled and improved (maybe AS4). There are many things still wrong right now.</p> <p>-I.e. Trying to add simple interactivity with AS3 is a truly a pain in the neck! (Don't start saying how simple is to add a class or whatnot...it's not that simple for most scripters)</p> <p>Im not going against the Flash as a programming tool, but I demand Adobe to provide a tool, for us designers, or give us back some power inside Flash.</p> <p>An interesting post for you to read would be this:</p> <p>http://www.insideria.com/2008/07/the-charges-against-actionscri.html</p> <p>Cheers!</p> @Tk and Bruce:

The point you aren’t seeing here is that the Flash community is conformed in two main branches: Coders and Designers (even though are many shades of gray right there… ;D)

What I think is that Flash started as anything BUT an programming IDE. Most graphic designers lack the logical thinking required to program (But we do great graphics…that most programmers cant!)

So the main issue here (at least to me) is:

-If I need to learn how to program in AS3, I would wait until the language has settled and improved (maybe AS4). There are many things still wrong right now.

-I.e. Trying to add simple interactivity with AS3 is a truly a pain in the neck! (Don’t start saying how simple is to add a class or whatnot…it’s not that simple for most scripters)

Im not going against the Flash as a programming tool, but I demand Adobe to provide a tool, for us designers, or give us back some power inside Flash.

An interesting post for you to read would be this:

http://www.insideria.com/2008/07/the-charges-against-actionscri.html

Cheers!

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By: Zack Jordan http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7335 Zack Jordan Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:19:14 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7335 <p>It saddens me a bit to see ECMA4 go, but I do hope that it frees Adobe to continue innovating. It's rough out here on the frontier, but I think the entire community always benefits from innovation- once they are dragged, kicking and screaming, into the present.</p> It saddens me a bit to see ECMA4 go, but I do hope that it frees Adobe to continue innovating. It’s rough out here on the frontier, but I think the entire community always benefits from innovation- once they are dragged, kicking and screaming, into the present.

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By: TK http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7326 TK Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:14:09 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7326 <p>Bruce, agreed. I learned AS3 last year and haven't coded in AS2 once since. It's a big leap, but once you get your feet wet in the world of OOP, you never want to go back. Most of the Flash community is stuck in "scripting" mode, you know, making cool little animations, a bouncing ball here and there, but that's not the future of Flash! AS3's future is large-scale web applications, not gadgets.</p> <ul> <li>TK</li> </ul> Bruce, agreed. I learned AS3 last year and haven’t coded in AS2 once since. It’s a big leap, but once you get your feet wet in the world of OOP, you never want to go back. Most of the Flash community is stuck in “scripting” mode, you know, making cool little animations, a bouncing ball here and there, but that’s not the future of Flash! AS3′s future is large-scale web applications, not gadgets.

  • TK
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By: Bruce http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7325 Bruce Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:43:33 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7325 <p>I'm not trying to start a fight, but people complaining about how complex AS3 is and how we should go back to AS2 need to get a grip. If it's too hard for you, why not just admit it?</p> <p>Pay attention to what so-called 'real' languages like Java and C# have to offer, and, since you are creating what is essentially web-delivered software, start thinking like a software developer instead of a scripter. You'll get better work.</p> I’m not trying to start a fight, but people complaining about how complex AS3 is and how we should go back to AS2 need to get a grip. If it’s too hard for you, why not just admit it?

Pay attention to what so-called ‘real’ languages like Java and C# have to offer, and, since you are creating what is essentially web-delivered software, start thinking like a software developer instead of a scripter. You’ll get better work.

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By: ES standard, GXP, Other stuff | Deespatch http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7317 ES standard, GXP, Other stuff | Deespatch Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:52:53 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7317 <p>[...] Iconara [...]</p> [...] Iconara [...]

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By: simple guy http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7306 simple guy Tue, 19 Aug 2008 02:29:57 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7306 <p>You've got some good points.</p> <p>The improvements to the API were a big gain, and perhaps the "drastic" change of AS3 was needed to allow Adobe to clean house. Even just the annoyance of trying to remember which properties had underscores forced many (including myself) to write a home-grown API layered on top of AS2.</p> <p>The speed improvements are also a nice gain, and static-typing and early binding certainly made those speed improvements easier to implement in the VM.</p> <p>Despite my preference for more dynamic languages, AS3 has been adopted by enough developers to make it hard to ignore, and Flex is also getting serious traction. So, until something better comes along, I'll keep a safe distance and hire someone else to write it.</p> You’ve got some good points.

The improvements to the API were a big gain, and perhaps the “drastic” change of AS3 was needed to allow Adobe to clean house. Even just the annoyance of trying to remember which properties had underscores forced many (including myself) to write a home-grown API layered on top of AS2.

The speed improvements are also a nice gain, and static-typing and early binding certainly made those speed improvements easier to implement in the VM.

Despite my preference for more dynamic languages, AS3 has been adopted by enough developers to make it hard to ignore, and Flex is also getting serious traction. So, until something better comes along, I’ll keep a safe distance and hire someone else to write it.

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By: TK http://blog.iconara.net/2008/08/14/side-stepping-es4/comment-page-1/#comment-7300 TK Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:26:16 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/?p=269#comment-7300 <p>Yeah, and AS2, while a great move towards OOP, is far from an object oriented language. Think of how few open source class libraries there were for AS2 and now how many are for AS3. The community has gone nuts with 3D engines, physics, drawing, text... the list goes on and on!</p> <p>I think that the community IS a little divided on this one, but I believe that AS3, though it has its bugs, was a huge leap for Flash and was necessary.</p> <ul> <li>TK</li> </ul> Yeah, and AS2, while a great move towards OOP, is far from an object oriented language. Think of how few open source class libraries there were for AS2 and now how many are for AS3. The community has gone nuts with 3D engines, physics, drawing, text… the list goes on and on!

I think that the community IS a little divided on this one, but I believe that AS3, though it has its bugs, was a huge leap for Flash and was necessary.

  • TK
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