Comments on: The Failure of CSS http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/ Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:49:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Fabianv http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-6668 Fabianv Mon, 05 May 2008 13:42:35 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-6668 <p>CSS is great, my only gripes I have with it is that browsers dont play nice with it all the time. Ever since I started using Flex's version of Flex the concept of browser compatibility problems flew out of the window :)</p> CSS is great, my only gripes I have with it is that browsers dont play nice with it all the time. Ever since I started using Flex’s version of Flex the concept of browser compatibility problems flew out of the window :)

]]> By: Rachel http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4986 Rachel Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:40:31 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4986 <p>All very good points. They have been weighing on my mind lately as I bounce back and forth between Flex and HTML. But as slow as these things move, I feel pretty hopeless that this will change in my lifetime as a web designer.</p> All very good points. They have been weighing on my mind lately as I bounce back and forth between Flex and HTML. But as slow as these things move, I feel pretty hopeless that this will change in my lifetime as a web designer.

]]> By: Theo http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4899 Theo Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:07:34 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4899 <p>Come to think of it, you say "it’s not CSS, it’s the lack of support what’s the problem", that's part of my point. CSS has failed, much because of the lack of support. Then there are other things too (like not having any tools for layout), but CSS has failed anyway.</p> Come to think of it, you say “it’s not CSS, it’s the lack of support what’s the problem”, that’s part of my point. CSS has failed, much because of the lack of support. Then there are other things too (like not having any tools for layout), but CSS has failed anyway.

]]> By: Theo http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4898 Theo Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:04:22 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4898 <p>That selectors can't ascend is not a support issue, but an issue with the standard, as far as I know. But I didn't say that. I critizise CSS on a more fundamental level, it just can't do layout, working box model or not. That people have found ways of doing layout with CSS in another thing, but the solutions aren't obvious and all of them are hacks, not what CSS was designed for. Constraint based layout with top, left, right, bottom is the closest, but that's not very easy to work with (and, as with most things in CSS, it doesn't work in all browsers).</p> <p>On the subject of frames, I agree with you and perhaps I should have been more clear on that: I don't advocate frames as a layout tool, they suck for all the reasons I stated in the article, as well as what you say. However, conceptually they are way better than for layout than anything I've seen in CSS.</p> <p>What I really would like to see is Flex' layout components like VBox and HBox or even its constraint based layouting, but in HTML.</p> That selectors can’t ascend is not a support issue, but an issue with the standard, as far as I know. But I didn’t say that. I critizise CSS on a more fundamental level, it just can’t do layout, working box model or not. That people have found ways of doing layout with CSS in another thing, but the solutions aren’t obvious and all of them are hacks, not what CSS was designed for. Constraint based layout with top, left, right, bottom is the closest, but that’s not very easy to work with (and, as with most things in CSS, it doesn’t work in all browsers).

On the subject of frames, I agree with you and perhaps I should have been more clear on that: I don’t advocate frames as a layout tool, they suck for all the reasons I stated in the article, as well as what you say. However, conceptually they are way better than for layout than anything I’ve seen in CSS.

What I really would like to see is Flex’ layout components like VBox and HBox or even its constraint based layouting, but in HTML.

]]> By: Ewout http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4897 Ewout Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:05:08 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4897 <p>Nice article. Wether I agree with it or not.</p> <p>But when I take a closer look at the problems mentioned (in the article and in the comments) I've come to an other conclusion: it's not CSS, it's the lack of support what's the problem.</p> <p>[quote] issues like: -Broken box model on IE6 -No explicit grid -Margin Collapsing -Selectors cant ascend [/quote]</p> <p>All the issues mentioned aren't CSS problems, but IE6 not supporting the standards.</p> <p>Nonetheless, what you've stated: [quote] First of all style and content is not the whole story; style, layout and content is closer to the truth. Style and layout are not the same thing and to mix them probably only leads to something like CSS.[/quote]</p> <p>I agree with that. But when it comes to using frames for layout I have to disagree. When you take a look at the pros and cons of CSS and frames I think CSS suits the best.</p> <p>With frames you'll get content from more than 1 file, presenting it as 1 page. In my opinion that's not layouting but just merging. If you get what i mean :)</p> <p>With CSS3 coming I also think problems will not be solved but just keep growing. When there are still browsers not fully supporting all the CSS standards and stuff, with the new features these problems will grow larger and could kill CSS.</p> <p>Happy CSS-ing ;)</p> Nice article. Wether I agree with it or not.

But when I take a closer look at the problems mentioned (in the article and in the comments) I’ve come to an other conclusion: it’s not CSS, it’s the lack of support what’s the problem.

[quote] issues like: -Broken box model on IE6 -No explicit grid -Margin Collapsing -Selectors cant ascend [/quote]

All the issues mentioned aren’t CSS problems, but IE6 not supporting the standards.

Nonetheless, what you’ve stated: [quote] First of all style and content is not the whole story; style, layout and content is closer to the truth. Style and layout are not the same thing and to mix them probably only leads to something like CSS.[/quote]

I agree with that. But when it comes to using frames for layout I have to disagree. When you take a look at the pros and cons of CSS and frames I think CSS suits the best.

With frames you’ll get content from more than 1 file, presenting it as 1 page. In my opinion that’s not layouting but just merging. If you get what i mean :)

With CSS3 coming I also think problems will not be solved but just keep growing. When there are still browsers not fully supporting all the CSS standards and stuff, with the new features these problems will grow larger and could kill CSS.

Happy CSS-ing ;)

]]> By: Abdulla http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4889 Abdulla Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:51:52 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4889 <p>besides the closing remarks and the layouting problems, there are just many many more</p> <p>issues like: -Broken box model on IE6 -No explicit grid -Margin Collapsing -Selectors cant ascend</p> <p>are a few of many</p> <p>good article to read ...</p> besides the closing remarks and the layouting problems, there are just many many more

issues like: -Broken box model on IE6 -No explicit grid -Margin Collapsing -Selectors cant ascend

are a few of many

good article to read …

]]> By: Tom H http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4835 Tom H Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:07:16 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4835 <p>I remember seeing a method using JavaScript for layout, and CSS for styling. I can't seem to find it though - at the time I dismissed it as a stupid idea, and it probably still is.</p> I remember seeing a method using JavaScript for layout, and CSS for styling. I can’t seem to find it though - at the time I dismissed it as a stupid idea, and it probably still is.

]]> By: Theo http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4819 Theo Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:56:55 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4819 <p>Yes, Flex can be styled with CSS, but only styled. I don't mind that at all, as I mentioned in the article CSS does style ok.</p> <p>CSS in Flex is by no means perfect, but it works.</p> Yes, Flex can be styled with CSS, but only styled. I don’t mind that at all, as I mentioned in the article CSS does style ok.

CSS in Flex is by no means perfect, but it works.

]]> By: Chris B http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4816 Chris B Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:20:31 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4816 <p>Interesting read, XPath yes! I find CSS OK, but browser bugs are what has really helped killed it for a lot of people. You have to patient that is for sure. Its not intuitive either, but its early days really. As for you moving away - can't Flex be styled with CSS, have you really left?</p> Interesting read, XPath yes! I find CSS OK, but browser bugs are what has really helped killed it for a lot of people. You have to patient that is for sure. Its not intuitive either, but its early days really. As for you moving away - can’t Flex be styled with CSS, have you really left?

]]> By: GadgetGadget.info - Gadgets on the web » The Failure of CSS http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4815 GadgetGadget.info - Gadgets on the web » The Failure of CSS Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:43:24 +0000 http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/#comment-4815 <p>[...] alex wrote an interesting post today!.Here’s a quick excerptBy way of Ajaxian I came across a post by Alex Russel on the failure of CSS and how CSS 3 just doesn’t solve any real issues. I can’t tell you how glad I am that for my career as a web developer chose Flash and Flex instead of the Ajax … [...]</p> [...] alex wrote an interesting post today!.Here’s a quick excerptBy way of Ajaxian I came across a post by Alex Russel on the failure of CSS and how CSS 3 just doesn’t solve any real issues. I can’t tell you how glad I am that for my career as a web developer chose Flash and Flex instead of the Ajax … [...]

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